Sanskrit has been a link language in India up to about 1100 c.e. Except possibly
for Tamil all the other major Indian languages are either derived from Sanskrit or closely linked to it. Since 1100 c.e, however, influence of foreign invaders have displaced Sanskrit from its role as a link language.
Persian was the link language from about 1100 to 1800 c.e. Since then English
has taken over the space vacated by Sanskrit and Persian.
Advantages of English
English has of course brought a great deal of concrete advantages. It is a window to western thought. Knowledge of English opens the door to the rich
scientific, technological, philosophical and commercial literature of the west. It is relatively simple to integrate with the current world system with
the knowledge of English.
Disadvantages of English
English has also brought a large number of disadvantages. It has divided Indian people into two classes, English speaking and non-English speaking.
The English speaking class knows about the world and benefits from that
knowledge. The non-English speaking class cannot obviously do that. Moreover,
if this situation continues, it may lead to the death of Indian languages in
the distant future. What is the point of learning a language if there is no
use for it commercially, scientifically, or technologically?
What can be done?
The first thing that should be done is to enrich the vocabulary of Indian
languages. It must be a collective effort. A collection of Indian language
scholars together with scientific, technical, commercial and legal experts should be assembled to create a common vocabulary of scientific, technical, commercial and legal terms for Indian languages. I am suggesting a common vocabulary since then it would be easy to read and translate scientific, technical and commercial Indian language literature. Indian universities should be upgraded to research universities and Indian language journals should be created in scientific, technical, commercial and legal areas.
Books should be written in scientific, technical, commercial and legal areas
in various Indian languages. I am not suggesting that we should discard English. English can continue for the present. All I am suggesting is the urgent need to upgrade Indian languages so that they remain relevant for the future. Available of scientific, technical, commercial and legal books in
Indian languages will also heal the breach that exists in Indian society
today. This seems to me the only way to save our mother tongues!
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written by P. Desikan, 2009-07-22 06:43:47
Dear Raju,
Of course you are right that the Chinese rulers as opposed to any set of Indian rulers can railroad and implement whatever they believe is for common Chinese good.
I would certainly not expect Indian rulers to do the same.
Very specifically I am asking for selection of any one Indian language (Perhaps Sanskrit as you suggest or Sanskritic Hindustani),like Mandarin in China, but only for developing a comprehensive world class vocabulary in science, technology and what have you, namely words which may be seen by the common man occasionally in newspapers or magazine, but words which he will not be using. Only the professionals will use them. Specialist sets of words for each professional speciality as available now in English. if necessary borrow a number of words from English even as European languages do all the time. English borrows new words all the time from every corner of the world. It is an intelligent thing to do. Then get professional books written in all major Indian languages using these comprehensive Indian professional terms. Since they will be common all over India, professionals across the country would be able to follow one another. They can use them whatever their skeletal language medium is. Any Indian language or even English. What do you think is the percentage of English speaking people who can read a professional treatise in English and follow it? Professional vocabulary is for professionals substantially, if not exclusively.
Am I getting my meaning across?
I am afraid we could just be beginning to repeat ideas, in this article's comment section, which would make the number of comments increase unwieldily. If Pradip would like to sum up and then initiate another blog for further comments, if he feels like it, it is alright with me.
Warm regards. Partha.
Of course you are right that the Chinese rulers as opposed to any set of Indian rulers can railroad and implement whatever they believe is for common Chinese good.
I would certainly not expect Indian rulers to do the same.
Very specifically I am asking for selection of any one Indian language (Perhaps Sanskrit as you suggest or Sanskritic Hindustani),like Mandarin in China, but only for developing a comprehensive world class vocabulary in science, technology and what have you, namely words which may be seen by the common man occasionally in newspapers or magazine, but words which he will not be using. Only the professionals will use them. Specialist sets of words for each professional speciality as available now in English. if necessary borrow a number of words from English even as European languages do all the time. English borrows new words all the time from every corner of the world. It is an intelligent thing to do. Then get professional books written in all major Indian languages using these comprehensive Indian professional terms. Since they will be common all over India, professionals across the country would be able to follow one another. They can use them whatever their skeletal language medium is. Any Indian language or even English. What do you think is the percentage of English speaking people who can read a professional treatise in English and follow it? Professional vocabulary is for professionals substantially, if not exclusively.
Am I getting my meaning across?
I am afraid we could just be beginning to repeat ideas, in this article's comment section, which would make the number of comments increase unwieldily. If Pradip would like to sum up and then initiate another blog for further comments, if he feels like it, it is alright with me.
Warm regards. Partha.
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written by Raju, 2009-07-22 05:27:30
Dear Partha,
The Chinese believe in the Benthamite principle of the “greatest good for the greatest number.” Not necessarily a bad principle in itself. Chinese also believe not in the rule of law but in rule by law.
If India's founding father had followed Chinese model then India would have suppressed diversities of all kinds and also forced two languages (English and Hindi) formula or one language (Hindi or English) instead of current three language formula of English, Hindi and local language.
It may not be easy and practical in the present state to force one Indian technical language for Indians. I believe near term goal should be getting knowledge in local language and not one Indian technical language (new or using one existing Indian language).
I agree with Pradip in using Sanskrit as a base for standardization for Indian languages to achieve goal of getting modern technological ideas/knowledge in local language.
Regards,
Rajendra
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written by narensomu, 2009-07-22 02:58:13
Dear Pradipda
This is a timely article.Thanks for the article.
Agree with your points. Was preoccupied with TN's peculiar languauge related political maladies that I didn't mention that in the previous comment.
What Partha says in the latest comment is feasible-one common language for tech . terms plus filling up with regional languages.
This reminds one of what tHe nationalist-poet Subramania Bharathi said almost a hndred years ago " Pira nattu nallarignar saththiram Tamil mozhiyil seidhal vendum"[ not sure if its a verbatim quote].
This means the works [ Science/Arts/ Philospphy] of foreign authors/scholars should be translated /made available to Tamil speakers-that applies to all regional language speakers too.
That way,the languages evolve and grow with the times and have new life infused in to them .
Also,many geniuses [ who dont know English] waiting quietly in our midst would come to the forefront and get a chance to use their expertise.
As the discussants say, it'll take time ,but with efforts it can be done.
Regards
ns
This is a timely article.Thanks for the article.
Agree with your points. Was preoccupied with TN's peculiar languauge related political maladies that I didn't mention that in the previous comment.
What Partha says in the latest comment is feasible-one common language for tech . terms plus filling up with regional languages.
This reminds one of what tHe nationalist-poet Subramania Bharathi said almost a hndred years ago " Pira nattu nallarignar saththiram Tamil mozhiyil seidhal vendum"[ not sure if its a verbatim quote].
This means the works [ Science/Arts/ Philospphy] of foreign authors/scholars should be translated /made available to Tamil speakers-that applies to all regional language speakers too.
That way,the languages evolve and grow with the times and have new life infused in to them .
Also,many geniuses [ who dont know English] waiting quietly in our midst would come to the forefront and get a chance to use their expertise.
As the discussants say, it'll take time ,but with efforts it can be done.
Regards
ns
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written by P. Desikan, 2009-07-21 18:17:49
I agree with Pradip that we will have to continue with English for a very long period.
We will not suffer because our global connection will endure and we can afford to keep at preeminent positions in some areas of science, technology, commerce, social sciences.
But the desirability of being able to express our ideas in these disciplines with Indian ethos in a language of our own cannot be questioned.
I reiterate that these special technical, commercial, management etc terms will have to be common for all of India, while space filling can be done in all the languages of India with lay words of their own using these common technical terms. Then it will be easy for the world community to jibe with us through facile translation .
Chinese text books are not written in the few Chinese languages and many Chinese dialects, but only in Mandarin. Mandarin is taught in all schools and is made the medium of instruction.
We may need to have to develop one technical Indian language apart from English and use its technical terms in all of India's major languages. Otherwise there will be chaos.
Regards. Partha.
We will not suffer because our global connection will endure and we can afford to keep at preeminent positions in some areas of science, technology, commerce, social sciences.
But the desirability of being able to express our ideas in these disciplines with Indian ethos in a language of our own cannot be questioned.
I reiterate that these special technical, commercial, management etc terms will have to be common for all of India, while space filling can be done in all the languages of India with lay words of their own using these common technical terms. Then it will be easy for the world community to jibe with us through facile translation .
Chinese text books are not written in the few Chinese languages and many Chinese dialects, but only in Mandarin. Mandarin is taught in all schools and is made the medium of instruction.
We may need to have to develop one technical Indian language apart from English and use its technical terms in all of India's major languages. Otherwise there will be chaos.
Regards. Partha.
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written by Raju, 2009-07-21 08:44:24
It may be embarrassing and shameful to hear language of some politicians but politics of language can be confusing in best case scenario and maddening in worst case. There is campaign in Mumbai to change name of prestigious English medium school Bombay Scottish School to I guess Mumbai Scottish School as everything is changed from Bombay to Mumbai.
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written by Dr. Pradip Gangopadh, 2009-07-21 07:27:08
The Times of India story that I have posted below admirably sums up what I mean when I say that Indian languages are threatened by extinction. It is a fact that there are no world class books in any modern technical and commercial subject available in Indian languages.So every one wants English language as the medium of instruction. I don't fault them for wanting that. So the first task is to create a common standardized vocabulary in science and technology, in law and commerce for all Indian languages so that it is possible to use Indian languages as medium of instruction.
*******************************************************
***
SC frowns at states' anti-English policy
PTI 21 July 2009, 09:25pm IST
NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court on Tuesday today frowned upon the imposition of
mother-tongue as a compulsory medium of instruction in educational
institutions and warned it could go against the interests of students
struggling in the present competitive world dominated by English language.
A three judge bench of Chief Justice K G Balakrishnan, Justices P Sathasivam
and B S Chauhan felt if states try to impose their mother-tongue on unwilling
students, it could turn counter-productive and make them ineligible even for
clerical jobs.
"They are unable to get even clerical posts. It is easy to say things. How do
we survive in the world?" the bench told the Karnataka government for its
decision to impose Kannada language as a compulsory medium of instructions for
Class 1 to 1V.
The apex court rejected the argument of senior counsel P P Rao appearing for
the state who, quoting experts, claimed mother-tongue was essential to be
imparted at an impressionable age for overall intellectual and cultural
development of the child.
"Parents are ready to pay Rs 40,000 to Rs 50,000 for getting their children
admitted in English medium schools. This is the real state of affairs. They do
not want to send them to schools of their mother-tongue. It should be left to
the parents," the bench observed.
The apex court said if mother-tongue is sought to be imposed on the students,
it would only further aggravate the problems of those studying in villages.
"Otherwise, students from villages can't compete with their peers in urban
areas," the bench observed.
The apex court made the remarks while refusing to stay a Karnataka High Court
judgement which had quashed an order passed by the state government making it
mandatory for all schools to have Kannada language alone as a medium of
instruction in all government and private schools from Class 1 to 1V.
The high court also had asked the state to grant permission to those
institutions which wanted to start new schools with English as a medium of
instruction.
*******************************************************
***
SC frowns at states' anti-English policy
PTI 21 July 2009, 09:25pm IST
NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court on Tuesday today frowned upon the imposition of
mother-tongue as a compulsory medium of instruction in educational
institutions and warned it could go against the interests of students
struggling in the present competitive world dominated by English language.
A three judge bench of Chief Justice K G Balakrishnan, Justices P Sathasivam
and B S Chauhan felt if states try to impose their mother-tongue on unwilling
students, it could turn counter-productive and make them ineligible even for
clerical jobs.
"They are unable to get even clerical posts. It is easy to say things. How do
we survive in the world?" the bench told the Karnataka government for its
decision to impose Kannada language as a compulsory medium of instructions for
Class 1 to 1V.
The apex court rejected the argument of senior counsel P P Rao appearing for
the state who, quoting experts, claimed mother-tongue was essential to be
imparted at an impressionable age for overall intellectual and cultural
development of the child.
"Parents are ready to pay Rs 40,000 to Rs 50,000 for getting their children
admitted in English medium schools. This is the real state of affairs. They do
not want to send them to schools of their mother-tongue. It should be left to
the parents," the bench observed.
The apex court said if mother-tongue is sought to be imposed on the students,
it would only further aggravate the problems of those studying in villages.
"Otherwise, students from villages can't compete with their peers in urban
areas," the bench observed.
The apex court made the remarks while refusing to stay a Karnataka High Court
judgement which had quashed an order passed by the state government making it
mandatory for all schools to have Kannada language alone as a medium of
instruction in all government and private schools from Class 1 to 1V.
The high court also had asked the state to grant permission to those
institutions which wanted to start new schools with English as a medium of
instruction.
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written by Dr. Pradip Gangopadh, 2009-07-21 07:13:57
Narensomu,
Languages will do fine only when the great works in them are protected, made available , researched and passed on to succeeding generations.
Yes this is right but this is not enough. A massive standardization and translation program needs to be undertaken so that world class ideas are available in all Indian languages.
Pradipda
Languages will do fine only when the great works in them are protected, made available , researched and passed on to succeeding generations.
Yes this is right but this is not enough. A massive standardization and translation program needs to be undertaken so that world class ideas are available in all Indian languages.
Pradipda
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written by Dr. Pradip Gangopadh, 2009-07-21 07:10:58
mogambo,
As far as I can see English will retain its status as a link language for a very long time. The first task is to upgrade the Indian languages. Right now I am looking at a Group Theory book which has been translated from Chinese to English. Let us first make world class ideas in various subject matters available in Indian languages. Only after then one can worry about a link language.
Gangp
As far as I can see English will retain its status as a link language for a very long time. The first task is to upgrade the Indian languages. Right now I am looking at a Group Theory book which has been translated from Chinese to English. Let us first make world class ideas in various subject matters available in Indian languages. Only after then one can worry about a link language.
Gangp
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written by narensomu, 2009-07-21 01:56:08
Am a late entrant here as in other articles.
I think there is a good cause for Pradipda's concern.
The regional languages only seem to be doing fine [ meaning they are nt dead as predicted] but they'd do better without state meddling -in TN debates are on about removing the grantha series of alphabets -nothing can be achieved by this.Tamil needs more alphabets as she uses words from all over the World now.
Languages will do fine only when the great works in them are protected, made available , researched and passed on to succeeding generations.
Independent , well funded , apolitical research institutions are needed.
Politics can play a big part in the protection or otherwise of classical languages.
The two language formula in TN has led many urban parents choose Hindi over Tamil rather than the 3 language formula [ one international language, one Indian language and one's mother tongue] which would have been ideal.
While some students [ English + Tamil] struggle to learn Hindi outside the school, some [ English + Hindi] are growing up blind and deaf to the gems in the language they speak at home.
All of them ,when they meet in a foreign country greet each other in English!
Regards
ns
I think there is a good cause for Pradipda's concern.
The regional languages only seem to be doing fine [ meaning they are nt dead as predicted] but they'd do better without state meddling -in TN debates are on about removing the grantha series of alphabets -nothing can be achieved by this.Tamil needs more alphabets as she uses words from all over the World now.
Languages will do fine only when the great works in them are protected, made available , researched and passed on to succeeding generations.
Independent , well funded , apolitical research institutions are needed.
Politics can play a big part in the protection or otherwise of classical languages.
The two language formula in TN has led many urban parents choose Hindi over Tamil rather than the 3 language formula [ one international language, one Indian language and one's mother tongue] which would have been ideal.
While some students [ English + Tamil] struggle to learn Hindi outside the school, some [ English + Hindi] are growing up blind and deaf to the gems in the language they speak at home.
All of them ,when they meet in a foreign country greet each other in English!
Regards
ns
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written by mogambo, 2009-07-20 11:50:43
mogambo likes the ideas here
language can become strong with masses using them but how to make 24-25 distinct linguistic groups speak a common language?
language can become strong with masses using them but how to make 24-25 distinct linguistic groups speak a common language?
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written by karigar, 2009-07-18 07:14:33
Sure...we can all do our little bit. Key is to teach youngsters & advocat amongst the adults the importance of this.
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written by Dr. Pradip Gangopadh, 2009-07-17 07:34:06
Dear Karigar,
No great thing is ever achieved without a great deal of difficulty. I expect any change to occur over hundreds of years.
Pradipda
No great thing is ever achieved without a great deal of difficulty. I expect any change to occur over hundreds of years.
Pradipda
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written by karigar, 2009-07-16 16:24:55
Dear Pradipda,
Thanks for the blog on an important, & one might say, urgent topic. The discussion points by Partha & Rmraju are interesting on their own.
On the whole, I have to side with Partha's take mostly, though. The general state of languages is as healthy as can be without state patronage.
It will be quite difficult to implement any changes to the status quo. The big hurdles, other than the obvious logistical ones, will be the mental blockages among the Anglophone intelligentsia of india, and a general sense of resistance to Sanskrit & Sanskriti.
The details are in this article:
http://medhajournal.com/index....Itemid=290
Thanks for the blog on an important, & one might say, urgent topic. The discussion points by Partha & Rmraju are interesting on their own.
On the whole, I have to side with Partha's take mostly, though. The general state of languages is as healthy as can be without state patronage.
It will be quite difficult to implement any changes to the status quo. The big hurdles, other than the obvious logistical ones, will be the mental blockages among the Anglophone intelligentsia of india, and a general sense of resistance to Sanskrit & Sanskriti.
The details are in this article:
http://medhajournal.com/index....Itemid=290
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written by Dr. Pradip Gangopadh, 2009-07-16 07:46:37
Dear Partha and Rajendra,
I largely agree with your suggestions. Yes, the only Indian language that can serve as a link language and replace English is Sanskrit. It is the central govt which should play the key role. I do not think we have to choose between standardization in one language or many. Standardized Sanskrit technical terms can just be straightforwardly taken over by the prakrit languages. So instead of the current 3-language formula of Hindi, English and local language, one can then have Sanskrit, English and the local language with both Sanskrit and the local language having a common set of standardized
technical terms. This will be the first step.
A series of other steps can be taken after we have created the necessary vocabulary.
Partha, I have not known about the website.
Regards
Pradip
I largely agree with your suggestions. Yes, the only Indian language that can serve as a link language and replace English is Sanskrit. It is the central govt which should play the key role. I do not think we have to choose between standardization in one language or many. Standardized Sanskrit technical terms can just be straightforwardly taken over by the prakrit languages. So instead of the current 3-language formula of Hindi, English and local language, one can then have Sanskrit, English and the local language with both Sanskrit and the local language having a common set of standardized
technical terms. This will be the first step.
A series of other steps can be taken after we have created the necessary vocabulary.
Partha, I have not known about the website.
Regards
Pradip
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written by Raju, 2009-07-16 05:20:11
Dear Pradip and Partha,
Looks like we have two options- one language Vs multiple languages for standardization. If we go with the option of one language then it is a technical evaluation to find out which language is most suitable for standardization.
Goal - The first thing that should be done is to enrich the vocabulary of Indian languages.
Here are suggested criteria for evaluation keeping long term plan horizon in mind to address goal of enriching the vocabulary i.e. terminology/dictionary.
A) Standardization should address all types of knowledge even though emphasis is on science, engineering, technical, commerce and legal areas. (In ultimate analysis all knowledge is one.)
•Para Vidya (Great or Divine Knowledge, Spirituality knowledge)
•Apara Vidya (Science, worldly knowledge)
Legal, literature, technology, engineering, commerce and other areas should be covered by above types.
B) Standardization should address following items both in verbal and non-verbal mode
1. Error free knowledge transfer to and from humans and machine.
2. Ease of knowledge acquisition (humans and machine).
3. Ease of knowledge storage/representation (humans and machine).
4. Suitable for knowledge generation particularly by machines.
C) History of language if any for use of standardization
We need to see if there are any additional criteria and goals for standardization.
Regards,
Raju
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written by P. Desikan, 2009-07-15 20:23:48
An article that appeared in 2005 in the Bloomington site, on another topic, namely machine translation from sanskrit to English,
http://www.languageinindia.com...ion1.html
gives some as yet unfinished results in an ongoing work on that subject. The section 1.2.1 in the preamble of the article in the link refers to other places where such work is being carried on.
http://www.languageinindia.com...ion1.html
gives some as yet unfinished results in an ongoing work on that subject. The section 1.2.1 in the preamble of the article in the link refers to other places where such work is being carried on.
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written by P. Desikan, 2009-07-15 17:49:05
Dear Pradip and Raju,
While we are all agreed that the major languages of India are in a state of good health and could be strengthened further by academic involvement, especially in scientific and technical fields,
It is also plain that it will be a tremendous effort to promote say some 14 of them to that level without jeopardizing common Indian goals, if we are not careful.
One representative language such as Sanskrit would seem to foot the bill. Hindi has the advantage of being a Prakrit derivative and can, for technical purposes, rely entirely on its sanskrit base. Hindi technical terms can then become the terms of acceptance for all of India. This would obviate the needfor speed in Sanskrit education of all literary Indians, which is again a huge, potentially welcome task.
You must be familiar with the Bloomington school which has been running an online journal for the past few years called languages in India. The link is
http://www.languageinindia.com/
You and other friends may like to look at some of their deliberations which have definitely included the question of technical vocabulary in Indian languages over the years.
Warm regards. Partha.
While we are all agreed that the major languages of India are in a state of good health and could be strengthened further by academic involvement, especially in scientific and technical fields,
It is also plain that it will be a tremendous effort to promote say some 14 of them to that level without jeopardizing common Indian goals, if we are not careful.
One representative language such as Sanskrit would seem to foot the bill. Hindi has the advantage of being a Prakrit derivative and can, for technical purposes, rely entirely on its sanskrit base. Hindi technical terms can then become the terms of acceptance for all of India. This would obviate the needfor speed in Sanskrit education of all literary Indians, which is again a huge, potentially welcome task.
You must be familiar with the Bloomington school which has been running an online journal for the past few years called languages in India. The link is
http://www.languageinindia.com/
You and other friends may like to look at some of their deliberations which have definitely included the question of technical vocabulary in Indian languages over the years.
Warm regards. Partha.
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written by Raju, 2009-07-15 16:44:51
Dear Pradip,
Questions raised by you are important and relevant. We all know French language was used for quite some time in many European countries including England, Russia etc. Citizens of these countries benefited only after commitment by their govt to promote their language. These countries considered promotion of local language to be a national issue.
Your strategy of standardization and observations about English are correct. I agree there will be HUGE savings after implementation. Every thing depends on commitment for standardization and other things. Question is what is optimum strategy? - Is it Sanskrit first then other Indian languages or some thing else? In other words who will take lead in this state govt or central govt? Here I am assuming that for Sanskrit central govt will take lead, as it is a national issue.
Standardization is an issue at country level. One agency, central govt is likely to achieve success in the project instead of multiple players.
If in the past Sanskrit was used for science, technology and mathematics then why not revive it for standardization of the technical vocabulary/ Indianization of modern science, technology and engineering. We do need to look at the role intelligent machines will play in the future. Sanskrit is suitable for that. Suggestion is to use Sanskrit as a language for standardization keeping past and future in mind.
Regards,
Rajendra
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written by Dr. Pradip Gangopadh, 2009-07-15 10:42:25
Dear Rajendra,
[It is a very ambitious - time and money consuming project. In the past various states have made attempts to bring legal, scientific commerce etc in various state languages with out much success.]
The first step as I commented in my reply to Partha is to construct technical terms in Indian languages. For example, let me post here a small excerpt in a mathematical text:
If instead we take the components of an axial vector as basis functions for the representation F of T, then, under the pure rotations of the group T, they serve as well as a polar vector (for pure rotations their transformation properties are the same. But now reflection in a plane x=y changes the sign of the z-component of the axial vector, while the other two components are transformed into one another, so chi=-1. Thus we obtain two different three-dimensional representations F1 and F2 of the group T. The characters of the elements S can be determined from the orthogonality of the row vectors in the character table.
I do not know if this excerpt can be translated in any Indian language. So the first step is to cook up common Indian language terms for 'axial vectors', 'polar vectors',
'basis functions' etc. We can in in fact use Sanskrit for these terms. We can save enormous amount of money and time if we can get people speaking the major Indian languages to use these common technical terms. So terms like 'axial vectors' and 'polar vectors' will be translated into one common Indian language term in all the major Indian languages. It will be also very easy to construct technical dictionaries containing the technical terms in all Indian languages. This way there will be a HUGE saving of time and money.I think such a strategy can be implemented in a time frame less than say 25 years. Attempts by state governments have failed because of lack of standardization. The different state governments have put the cart before the horse. First one should make the language a capable vehicle for expressing technical ideas. Only after that one can think of using the language.
As far as reviving Sanskrit is concerned, the strategy outlined above will automatically do so. The question of whether Sanskrit can be used as a link language is more difficult. English is not merely a link language in India but it is also becoming an international link language. So I propose to leave the question of changing link language to future generations. The first step is to standardize the technical vocabulary for Indian languages and make them capable of being vehicles of modern technological ideas.
Regards
Pradip
[It is a very ambitious - time and money consuming project. In the past various states have made attempts to bring legal, scientific commerce etc in various state languages with out much success.]
The first step as I commented in my reply to Partha is to construct technical terms in Indian languages. For example, let me post here a small excerpt in a mathematical text:
If instead we take the components of an axial vector as basis functions for the representation F of T, then, under the pure rotations of the group T, they serve as well as a polar vector (for pure rotations their transformation properties are the same. But now reflection in a plane x=y changes the sign of the z-component of the axial vector, while the other two components are transformed into one another, so chi=-1. Thus we obtain two different three-dimensional representations F1 and F2 of the group T. The characters of the elements S can be determined from the orthogonality of the row vectors in the character table.
I do not know if this excerpt can be translated in any Indian language. So the first step is to cook up common Indian language terms for 'axial vectors', 'polar vectors',
'basis functions' etc. We can in in fact use Sanskrit for these terms. We can save enormous amount of money and time if we can get people speaking the major Indian languages to use these common technical terms. So terms like 'axial vectors' and 'polar vectors' will be translated into one common Indian language term in all the major Indian languages. It will be also very easy to construct technical dictionaries containing the technical terms in all Indian languages. This way there will be a HUGE saving of time and money.I think such a strategy can be implemented in a time frame less than say 25 years. Attempts by state governments have failed because of lack of standardization. The different state governments have put the cart before the horse. First one should make the language a capable vehicle for expressing technical ideas. Only after that one can think of using the language.
As far as reviving Sanskrit is concerned, the strategy outlined above will automatically do so. The question of whether Sanskrit can be used as a link language is more difficult. English is not merely a link language in India but it is also becoming an international link language. So I propose to leave the question of changing link language to future generations. The first step is to standardize the technical vocabulary for Indian languages and make them capable of being vehicles of modern technological ideas.
Regards
Pradip
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written by Dr. Pradip Gangopadh, 2009-07-15 10:17:50
Dear Partha,
I do not think Indian languages are as yet ready for academic upgradation. There is a severe lack of technical terms. There is a strong need for technical dictionaries in Indian languages. Before one can even think of constructing academic language one must first strengthen these languages.
Regards
Pradip
I do not think Indian languages are as yet ready for academic upgradation. There is a severe lack of technical terms. There is a strong need for technical dictionaries in Indian languages. Before one can even think of constructing academic language one must first strengthen these languages.
Regards
Pradip
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written by Raju, 2009-07-15 08:17:15
Hi All,
I liked the topic and also the title. Pradip, you started with Sanskrit but later on switched to saving number of Indian languages. It is a very ambitious - time and money consuming project. In the past various states have made attempts to bring legal, scientific commerce etc in various state languages with out much success.
We may want to look at the language issue from the point of view of knowledge.
Here are the types of knowledge
•Para Vidya (Great or Divine Knowledge, Spirituality knowledge)
•Apara Vidya (Science, worldly knowledge)
Legal, literature, commerce and other areas should be covered by above types.
Following items are issues that language should address
1.Knowledge transfer (humans and machine)
2.Knowledge acquisition (humans and machine)
3.Knowledge storage/representation (humans and machine)
4.Knowledge generation (humans and machine)
Most of the Indian languages are derived from Sanskrit and/or has a link with Sanskrit. Sanskrit has been used for over 2000 years both for para vidya and apara vidya.
In modern times we need to address the issue of language keeping in mindmachines. Here too Sanskrit can be used (see note).
Now Sanskrit may be old but with over one billion Indians and Sanskrit lovers in the world task of reviving Sanskrit may be easier than big investment in various Indian state languages. It may be take say a decade to generate critical mass for Sanskrit. This will not only unite people culturally but also open vast knowledge, literature that has been generated over 4000 years. There will not be any socio-political issues if it is a people’s only movement (non-political) to revive Sanskrit without displacing English and existing Indian languages. Reviving Sanskrit may be a way to regenerate existing Indian languages and also bridging the gaps in knowledge.
Regards,
Rajendra Rajput
Note:
Advances in Computer Science, in particular, in Artificial Intelligence have got researchers in these areas interested in the basic problems of language, logic and cognition in the past three decades. It has been recognized that Panini's Sanskrit grammar Astadhadhyi presents a framework for a universal grammar of any language. This rule and meta rule based grammar provides a powerful knowledge representation structures for artificial intelligence. It is important to note that artificial computer languages such as Fortan, Pascal, C etc are not very suitable for artificial intelligence.
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written by P. Desikan, 2009-07-14 02:29:17
Dear Pradip,
I do agree with you that there is as yet no serious attempt made to write text books and technical (and other) treatises in India's major languages. The reason is well known too. Those who have such capacity know that they can reach out to a far larger readership if they continue to produce their works in English in which they have competence because it is the medium of higher education.
It would be a Himalayan effort to produce a generation of Indian language proficient specialists in different subjects and then introduce University education through these experts to students in Indian language media. I do not discount the possibility but it is likely to take quite a while.
MEANWHILE WHAT MY COMMENT IMPLIED WAS THAT OUR LANGUAGES ARE IN A STATE OF GOOD HEALTH AND READY FOR ACADEMIC UPGRADATION WHENEVER THE SOCIETY TAKES THE SOCIO-POLITICAL DECISION FOE BABY STEPS IN THAT PROCESS.
Regards. Partha
I do agree with you that there is as yet no serious attempt made to write text books and technical (and other) treatises in India's major languages. The reason is well known too. Those who have such capacity know that they can reach out to a far larger readership if they continue to produce their works in English in which they have competence because it is the medium of higher education.
It would be a Himalayan effort to produce a generation of Indian language proficient specialists in different subjects and then introduce University education through these experts to students in Indian language media. I do not discount the possibility but it is likely to take quite a while.
MEANWHILE WHAT MY COMMENT IMPLIED WAS THAT OUR LANGUAGES ARE IN A STATE OF GOOD HEALTH AND READY FOR ACADEMIC UPGRADATION WHENEVER THE SOCIETY TAKES THE SOCIO-POLITICAL DECISION FOE BABY STEPS IN THAT PROCESS.
Regards. Partha
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written by Dr. Pradip Gangopadh, 2009-07-13 07:30:49
Dear Partha,
There is a need to upgrade Indian languages, i.e., create an academic version of these languages. It is not enough just to transliterate English words.
I have already written that,"I am not suggesting that we should discard English. English can continue for the present.". So I do not see any further threat to division simply because an academic version is created.
I would like to see text books and popular books in Physics, Mathematics, Chemistry etc in Indian languages. This will help reduce the division between English speakers and non-English speakers. This will also help transmit new ideas to the masses.
Regards
Pradip
There is a need to upgrade Indian languages, i.e., create an academic version of these languages. It is not enough just to transliterate English words.
I have already written that,"I am not suggesting that we should discard English. English can continue for the present.". So I do not see any further threat to division simply because an academic version is created.
I would like to see text books and popular books in Physics, Mathematics, Chemistry etc in Indian languages. This will help reduce the division between English speakers and non-English speakers. This will also help transmit new ideas to the masses.
Regards
Pradip
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written by P. Desikan, 2009-07-11 00:00:44
Dear Pradip.
At least ten major languages of India have thriving newspapers that publish on every subject under the sun. They are able to do this because they have learnt to transliterate English words in their own language scripts, just as they learnt to do with Persian words formerly, and Sanskrit words before then.
In the second decade after independence there was a serious attempt to find equivalents of technical English words in all the major Indian languages. This was soon given up quite wisely. We do not want to have one more mechanism to keep our linguistic states further divided!
The major languages of India and even some minor ones keep producing literature of every description and also films. Indian language presses are kept busy all the time. Hindi does occupy a special position both in the Government and in the marketplace, but no one minds its unique position any more.
Indian language software is also becoming booming business.
English will continue to be a useful link language and if education policies in the states are proper, every literate Indian will be fully literate in at least one additional Indian language apart from his mother tongue and will also be able to communicate orally passably in English.
No, I do not visualize the death of any major Indian language because of our continuing with English.
I am worried, however, about the extremely possible demise of some beautiful spoken dialects and tribal tongues. We need to strengthen these by using them in the audio and visual media and if possible in the printed media using the scripts of the neighbouring major language.
Regards. Partha.
At least ten major languages of India have thriving newspapers that publish on every subject under the sun. They are able to do this because they have learnt to transliterate English words in their own language scripts, just as they learnt to do with Persian words formerly, and Sanskrit words before then.
In the second decade after independence there was a serious attempt to find equivalents of technical English words in all the major Indian languages. This was soon given up quite wisely. We do not want to have one more mechanism to keep our linguistic states further divided!
The major languages of India and even some minor ones keep producing literature of every description and also films. Indian language presses are kept busy all the time. Hindi does occupy a special position both in the Government and in the marketplace, but no one minds its unique position any more.
Indian language software is also becoming booming business.
English will continue to be a useful link language and if education policies in the states are proper, every literate Indian will be fully literate in at least one additional Indian language apart from his mother tongue and will also be able to communicate orally passably in English.
No, I do not visualize the death of any major Indian language because of our continuing with English.
I am worried, however, about the extremely possible demise of some beautiful spoken dialects and tribal tongues. We need to strengthen these by using them in the audio and visual media and if possible in the printed media using the scripts of the neighbouring major language.
Regards. Partha.
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Thanks for clarification.
Looks like we all are saying same thing but in a different way.
Raju