Below article is an eye opener. Shows how the newly minted "Indian Bible" is swallowing up Hindu shastric quotes & appending 'ananda' bhavas to the 'Jesus on cross' figure where there was only wretchedness & pain (..'for he so loved the world, he took its sins upon himself', so now it's payback time for humanity to convert to Christianity!...) So since pain is not seductive enough to Hindus, it's time for 'blissfulness' marketing.
- Granted , there's a "..marketplace of ideas, & may the best 'man' win.." attitude prevalent in the world today, but is this a fair & ethical practice?
- What "Intellectual Property Rights" do Hindus ( and all other embattled traditions) have, for these apparently blatant violations?
Full article posted here for discussions amongst Medhavis.
{readmore}
Inculturation and the Hybrid Bible
http://indiasecular.wordpress.com/
G.P. Srinivasan - Ivarta
It is not at all surprising for me to know that the Archbishop of Mumbai lied to editor, Hindu Voice while answering his question on The New Community Bible during the press meet held on 12th June 2009, 3.30 p.m at the famous Shanmukhanada Hall, Mumbai.
Just read the following quote.
"When the existence of the Church is threatened, she is released from the commandments of morality with unity (of the Church) as the end; the use of every means is sanctified, even cunning, treachery, violence, simony, prison, death for all order is for the sake of community and the individual must be sacrificed to the common good" - Bishop of Verden, AD 1411. (Darkness at Noon by Arthur Koestler, Time Reading Program, 1941, Macmilan Co. Page 77).
Ends justify the means.
Inculturation, as propounded by the Vatican Council II Documents 1, is the plan of Christians being within the folds of culture, tradition and heritage of any people, posing as faithful devotees and declare the "hidden Christ" at right moment, so that they (dubbed as heathens, infidels & unbelievers) would become "Christians". Till such time, they have to adapt and adopt their culture and related customs, practices and manners. They even build Temple-like Churches, use Hindu symbols and paraphernalia extensively and the Christian priests roam as Hindu Sanyasis and Sadhus. By the Vatican Directive Prot. N. 802/69 dated April 25, 1969, Twelve Points of Inculturation were permitted in India. So far, the "Inculturation" activities carried out by the Christian missionaries among the Saivites have been the topics discussed in selected and published books also.
The authors have come across a Jesuit, who has been carrying out his activities among the Srivaishnavas for around 30 years. He is Professor FX. Clooney from Harvard University"s Divinity department, following the steps of Roberto de Nobili. It is well known as to how Roberto de Nobili, a Jesuit came from Italy claiming as a "Roman Brahmin", donned ochre robes, learned Indian languages, forged "Yasur Veda", was tried by the Ecclesiastical Court and finally died in Chennai itself without any news.
In 2000, after the Pope"s condemnation of practice of Yoga and other Eastern Meditation methods by the Catholic priests and others, some Christians have also started criticizing the inculturation programmes.
However, the ongoing activities by the inculturation and Inter-religious / Faith groups / programs clearly prove that they are pursued vigorously with the same old plans. Though, Fr. Bede Griffiths has not openly recorded in his writings, Jesuits like Ignatitius Hrudhayam, Francis X. Clooney, Amaladas and others have revealed that they follow Roberto de Nobili as their role model. Thus, the succeeding Jesuits in India have taken his method of "Inculturation" as a "role model" overtly and covertly. The mushrooming Catholic Ashrams and increasing ochre rob clad Christian priests and preachers amply prove their game-plan.
Gullible Hindus
Gullible Hindus are found often helping Christians in their inculturation directly and indirectly, knowingly or unknowingly. They simply think that these Christians want to know Hinduism and they are happy that the white skinned foreigners too want to follow their religious practices.
Academic Iron Curtain
Dr. Bettina Baumer, a German is based in Varanasi. She is well versed in Sanskrit. She has studied Kashmir Saivism also. She has ingratiated herself with Hindu Scriptures. About 18 year ago (1991), she arranged a conference in Dehradun. Selected Scholars about twenty in number participated in this closed conference which lasted six days.
The theme of the conference was "Mysticism in Christianity and Saivism". The Director of the International Institute of Saiva Siddhantham Research located at Dharmapuram (Tamilnadu), presented a paper on Saivite Mysticism. It was well received.
Years later eventually Dr.Betina Baumer, brought in a book form the papers presented. However the paper on Saivite Mysticism did not find a place in the Printed book. When confronted, by the Director of IISSRC, Dharmapuram, She told him that English was so rich, and high, that even Englishmen, were unable to follow it. However the reason given for omission of this paper was, that the paper on Saivite Mysticism, was not received in time. The fact is that the paper was handed over well on the very day, after it was presented and discussed. It was also the best paper, and appreciated by the participants, When confronted with this fact, she only said "I am really sorry." When elegant papers on Hinduism are presented, Christians in Hindu garb never fail to draw , an iron curtain over them.
Misguided Sri Vaishnavas helped Father FX Clooney
The Vatican sees India as the last bastion of the sacred, and hence seeks to infuse that spirit into Christianity in the West. Harvard Professor FX Clooney says, he wants to infuse the inspiration that he has derived from Nammalvar"s "Thiruvaimozhi" into Christianity. Western values are driven by adventurism, pop music, evangelizations, sports, commerce, politics, technology and humanism; a fact which our policy makers should take note of.
Thomas Paine (1737- 1809) wrote: "Everything in the Old Testament is perverted and distorted into meanings never intended by the writers. The practice which the writers of the books employ is not more false than it is absurd. They state some trifling case of the person they call Jesus Christ, and then cut out a sentence from some passage of the OT and call it a prophecy of that case. But when the words thus cut out are restored to the places they are taken from, and read with the words before and after them, they give the lie to the New Testament."
Robert L. Johnson wrote in "The Bible"s Ungodly Origins". "Many rank and file Christians sincerely believe the Bible is a direct communication from God to man. I know I used to believe it was when I was a Christian. And from recent conversations with many sincere Christians I know this is currently true for many believers. Once it is proven to our God-given reason that the Bible is strictly a man-made collection of mythology the mind loses yet another shackle of "revelation" and is soon on its way to full freedom and progress.
The Bible was not handed to mankind by God, nor was it dictated to human stenographers by God. It has nothing to do with God. In actuality, the Bible was VOTED to be the word of God by a group of men during the 4th century. "
Thomas Paine (1737- 1809) in his work titled The Age of Reason noted that the very basis upon which Christianity was raised, on "flawed methodologies," For example the taking of alleged Old Testament prophecies and claiming that they referred to Christ who was born some 700 to 500 years after they had been uttered by the Hebrew prophets.
H.G. Wells
H.G Wells in the world famous, The Outline of History, Vol. I, pages 462-463, wrote: "It (the Council of Nicaea) marks the definite entry upon the stage of human affairs of the Christian Church and of Christianity as it is generally understood in the world to-day. It marks the exact definition of Christian teaching by the Nicene Creed."
Constantine ordered and financed 50 parchment copies of the new "holy scriptures". It seems with the financial element added to the picture, the Church fathers were able to overcome their differences and finally agree which "holy" books would stay and which would go and following its true tradition the Indian Bible has been written with over one hundred quotations from Hindu scriptures incorporated.
Late Major Vedantam, who pioneered the investigation of Christian misionaries in India over thirty years ago wrote:
"Theocentric and theocratic eclectics are dangerous as nuclear, chemical and other warheads. The concept of "My God is your God, but your God is No God" does not foster understanding, co-operation and goodwill." The concept should be changed to "Your God is my God and my God is your God" and accepted by all religions.
According to Professor John Crossan of Biblical Studies at DePaul University ,USA, "The Roman Emperor Constantine the Great (274-337 CE), who was the first Roman Emperor to convert to Christianity, needed a single canon to be agreed upon by the Christian leaders to help him unify the remains of the Roman Empire. Until this time the various Christian leaders could not decide which books would be considered "holy" and thus "the word of God" and which ones would be excluded and not considered the word of God.
"Emperor Constantine, who was Roman Emperor from 306 CE until his death in 337 CE, used what motivates many to action - MONEY! He offered the various Church leaders money to agree upon a single canon that would be used by all Christians as the word of God. The Church leaders gathered together at the Council of Nicaea and voted the "word of God" into existence. (I wish to thank Brian Show for pointing out in his rebuttal to this article that the final version of the Christian Bible was not voted on at the Council of Nicaea, per se. The Church leaders didn"t finish editing the "holy" scriptures until the Council of Trent when the Catholic Church pronounced the Canon closed. However, it seems the real approving editor of the Bible was not God but Constantine! and the Holy Bible has been once again tampered with, in 2008 Edition - only this time with additions from Hindu Scriptures.
Why would Christian Church copy Hindu Scriptures?
The answer is here.
"Such, indeed, is the exuberance and flexibility of this language (Sanskrit) and its power of compounding words, and when it has been, so to speak, baptized, and thoroughly, penetrated with the spirit of Christianity, it will probably be found, next to Hebrew and Greek, the most expressive vehicle of Christian Truth." - M. Monier - Williams (1861:54)
When we hear that at least a hundred quotation from Vedas, Yogasutra and Upanishads have been incorporated into the Indian Bible published in 2008. We are worried. We are also shocked when we hear the cross behind the Jesus has been removed about which a leading archeologist commented "this is tribanga pose of Sri Krishna and also resembles the Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in ecstacy". The pain and trauma in face of Jesus has been erased and to be replaced with the picture of Joy found in Krishna, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu or Nataraja.. The transformation is not yet complete, and the words "he is dancing with joy" has been interpolated in the adjacent page. Hindu musical instruments used in religious Bhajans like Tambura is on the right side , Tabla is on the left side and a violin is on the upper left, dangles in the air, and there are twinkling stars all around in the space. A pair of cymbals (jalra) is found at the Right foot of Jesus. He has been adorned with a long Yahnopavitham, which extends up to the left ankle, instead of the traditional one that stops at the waist. We Hindus are legitimately worried at the blatant plagiarism.
Kalakshetra controversy
Whenever we hear the name "Golden Temple", we tend to think of the beautiful Harmandir Sahib in Amritsar. There is another Golden Temple in South India - the great Nataraja temple at Chidambaram in Tamilnadu that is associated with the cosmic dance of Nataraja. These are sacred cultural and religious symbols of Bharat and of great importance and immense sacrifices have been made by both Sikhs and Hindus respectively to save and protect their holy symbols and sacred places. Kalakshetra Foundation, Chennai, an Institution established for promoting Hindu Dance forms, is used for inculturation by its Jew-Christian Director. She has removed the Nataraja and Ganesh statues from its premises, which is certainly a matter of concern for Hindus (Hindu Voice, Sept. 2007).
The classic Bharat Natyam cannot be serrated from Hinduism by Vatican ideologues in India, as they have found it a useful tool of evangelizations.
"(Christian) inculturation is cultural plagiarism (and) cultural vandalism, with the idea of ultimate conquest says " Swami Devananda. He says "We must be beware of Christians with their flattery and money, taking over our sacred art forms such as Bharathanatyam, even as they did to those of ancient Greece and Rome, and calling them their own". Drawing from his four decades of dealing with Christian Missionaries, he gave this ominous warning to Hindus "Christianity is a parasitical religion, which attaches itself to a host culture and feeds off it, absorbing its spirit and lifeblood into itself until the host culture dies and become Christian." This was articulated by Art of Living fame Sri Sri Ravishankarji "How can you separate Bharata Natyam & Hinduism?" and again echoed by Pujya Swami Dayananda Saraswathy, "Dance is Sacred, You cannot think of Dance without Nataraja", and now Hindus have the double duty to defend their fellow religious people and also their texts from poachers. (Hindu Voice, Sept. 2007).
Conclusions:
"To understand the Hindu Concept of Cosmic Nataraja we have to understand the Hindu Concept of dance itself. When it comes to natya the greatest inimitable exponent, Balasaraswathy had stated that Bharat Natyam is nothing but "Natya yoga". Bharat Natya originated with Tapas and Nataraja himself is the supreme teacher of Natya and codified by Bharatha Muni in his Natya Sastra. Bharat Natya is the Supreme cultural Symbol of Perfection in dance form. When the most revered cultural symbol of Sikhs was threatened as happened some months ago when the blue attire of their most revered Guru Govind Singh was copied by Dera Sacha Sauda founder Baba Ram Rahim, the entire sikh community of Punjab and Haryana were outraged . They came to streets, and the two states came to a stand still. it was a war like situation. This incident was an eye-opener, as to what the consequences will be if religious sacred religious symbols and traditions of one section of the population are misappropriated illegitimately.
In the absence of any law whatsoever in India to protect the original indigenous Cultures, heritage and knowledge- the entire gamut of Hindu is under threat of unholy poachers. Its heritage and dominant concepts and Ideas, Icons, Scriptural lore and Philosophical heritage.
It is well known that Basmati, Neem, Turmeric, Yoga and Bharat Natyam have has now become endangered, and now it is the very Vedas, Yoga Sutras, having been plagiarized and hence the crying need to enact strict legislations.
Food Items like Basmati, Neem and Turmeric have since been protected after stiff legal battles in international courts. Now it is the turn for the other rich symbols of Hindus, Buddhist, Sikh and Jaina literature in books, sacred objects, icons, temples, sacred forests, mountains, caves, rivers, religious spaces like bathing ghats, sacred trees , groves, passages, ashrams, mutts, properties, lands endowed to them, unique customs, leadership , sampradhayam, follower ship, rituals, practices, worship methods, mantras, tantras, yantras, associated with these traditions, padarthas, aushadas, pathways, places, religious, cultural icons, art, architecture, music, dance, folk art, instruments, dress, jewellery, festivals, methods, stories and organizations, sanctity, even food and gastronomic effects, need urgent documentation and immediate protection from our authorities.
Acts like intellectual property rights must me enacted, and copy right provisions must be extended for Cultural objects and the religious space of Hindus must be protected as holy sanctuaries, but before that Hindus have to be sensitized for the great work that lies before them.
From De Nobili to Clooney @ http://www.christianaggression.org/item_display.php?type=ARTICLES&id=1132002640
Idol worship in Churches @ http://indiasecular.wordpress.com/2009/03/15/idol-worship-in-churches/
Whither Decency @ http://globeonline.wordpress.com/2007/06/19/islam-the-power-of-no/
Invasion thru Conversion @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0drCTLO5hWA&feature=related
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written by Dr. Pradip Gangopadh, 2009-12-24 08:15:30
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written by Dr. Pradip Gangopadh, 2009-12-24 08:03:25
on the following comment by jeyakar.
[(even if the neighbour throws stones at us)." title="wikipedia: Good news for you....
From most of above comments i understood the frustration and accusations
directed against a particular faith.But let us be clear that shortcomings,
corruption and deceit is well evident even in all places to the utmost level.
yes...there r exceptions in all walks of life..it will be unaffair to become
self righteous by pointing fingers at others.At the same time I realy condemn
all vested personal interest in the name of religion. The comments were like
throwing stones from a glass house at a neighbour's house.In a cultural
diversified country like ours it is heartbreaking to realise religious
intolerance is still evident among some even after witnessing the demolision
of a famous structure which polarised people with adverse consequences before
16 years.
I think some of de ill informed comments were due to lack of knowledge on
truth.I have good news for you my friend.Christainity is all about changing
within,giving and serving others.The holy bible doesnt need infomation or
suggestions from anywhere.It projects a god who loved us so much that he gave
his only begotten son to die for our sins and curses by shedding blood on the
cross.It has the past,present and futures.Can u find these anywhere???.Please
take a chance to read it to know more.we dont encourage violence, carrying
weapons or hurting us physically to redeem from sins.We recommend beleif in
the lamb who has sacrifised for oursake and approach god through him.There is
no stopping us from sharing the good news with others because the innocent
blood shed by christ was for all mankind's well being.How can we keep it
secret when we have tasted the goodness of god and care about others.We are
not parasites on a host rather a animal which removes bad blood by injecting
hope and love.It is natural to earn the contempt of some in the process.We
will not reciprocate it bcoz ur faith says "Love thy neighbours as yourself"
(even if the neighbour throws stones at us)." rel="nofollow" target="wikipedia">Good news for you....
From most of above comments i understood the frustration and accusations
directed against a particular faith.But let us be clear that shortcomings,
corruption and deceit is well evident even in all places to the utmost level.
yes...there r exceptions in all walks of life..it will be unaffair to become
self righteous by pointing fingers at others.At the same time I realy condemn
all vested personal interest in the name of religion. The comments were like
throwing stones from a glass house at a neighbour's house.In a cultural
diversified country like ours it is heartbreaking to realise religious
intolerance is still evident among some even after witnessing the demolision
of a famous structure which polarised people with adverse consequences before
16 years.
I think some of de ill informed comments were due to lack of knowledge on
truth.I have good news for you my friend.Christainity is all about changing
within,giving and serving others.The holy bible doesnt need infomation or
suggestions from anywhere.It projects a god who loved us so much that he gave
his only begotten son to die for our sins and curses by shedding blood on the
cross.It has the past,present and futures.Can u find these anywhere???.Please
take a chance to read it to know more.we dont encourage violence, carrying
weapons or hurting us physically to redeem from sins.We recommend beleif in
the lamb who has sacrifised for oursake and approach god through him.There is
no stopping us from sharing the good news with others because the innocent
blood shed by christ was for all mankind's well being.How can we keep it
secret when we have tasted the goodness of god and care about others.We are
not parasites on a host rather a animal which removes bad blood by injecting
hope and love.It is natural to earn the contempt of some in the process.We
will not reciprocate it bcoz ur faith says "Love thy neighbours as yourself"
(even if the neighbour throws stones at us).]
I noticed the comments dripping with intolerance and contradictions. Let me
go over them point by point:
1. Jeyaker starts off with the bombastic "Good news for you..". Does this mean
that non-Christians have never heard any good news from within their own
dharma? Is this the attitude of a tolerant person?
2. Then he lectures on the perils of religious intolerance. Does the fact that
according to Jeyaker there is no good news to be found within the Hindu
tradition (the implication of the "Good news for you.." comment) compatible
with religious tolerance?
3. Jeyaker boldly and piously asserts that he will not reciprocate (throwing
stones at his neighbors) bcoz [o]ur faith says "Love thy neighbours as
yourself" (even if the neighbour throws stones at us).
Is it true that Jeyaker is not throwing stones at his neighbors? Let us check the facts:
Jeyaker straightforwardly accuses Hindus of throwing stones from a glass
house at a neighbor's house. He sneaks in the demolision (ok his spelling is
a little off but he has a monopoly on good news!) of a famous structure while
piously declaring that he is not going to throw stones! So is it a fact that
Jeyaker is not throwing stones at Hindus?
4. Jayeker boldly sneaks in the standard proselytizing line,"I have good news
for you my friend. Christainity (again the spelling is a bit off) is all about
changing within,giving and serving others.The holy bible doesnt need
infomation or suggestions from anywhere.It projects a god who loved us so much
that he gave his only begotten son to die for our sins and curses by shedding
blood on the cross.It has the past,present and futures.Can u find these
anywhere???"
I would ask the medhabis to read through these lines carefully.
Firstly, Jeyaker again stresses that he has good news for us Hindus. The
implication is that there is nothing good in Hinduism. (If there is good in
Hinduism then we will not need good news from him. So much for religious
tolerance!!!)
Secondly, he suggests that the holy bible doesn't need information or
suggestions from anywhere. This is a red flag and should immediately tell us
that we are dealing with a hardcore fundamentalist. What is he really saying
and why? Jeyakar knows very well that Hindus would raise the issue of the holy
Bible being a completely contradictory, blood thirsty and in parts purely
fictional in character. Jeyaker is telling us Hindus that he will not accept
any reasoned argument about the fictional character of the Bible in advance
and instead wants to shove down our throats the infallible nature of the
Bible. This is a very sneaky argument!
Thirdly, he proudly asserts that his god gave his only begotten son to die for
our sins and curses by shedding blood on the cross. He even challenges Hindus
by asking the question: "Can u find these anywhere???".
What he seems not to realize is that such a god fills Hindus with revulsion.
Why you ask? Please look into the implication of what Jeyaker's god is doing.
Jeyaker's god is performing a human sacrifice (the true meaning of the
statement: gave his only begotten son to die for our sins and curses by
shedding blood on the cross). Jeyaker's god seems to be completely deluded.
Would you regard any body highly who tells you that he has sacrificed his only
begotten son for your good? Is human sacrifice a good thing? Is it even possible
for human sacrifice to cleanse others of their sins? Jeyaker has the gall to ask
Hindus whether they can find human sacrifice anywhere! Clearly the fellow is
completely deluded.
Jeyaker is peddling human sacrifice to Hindus as good news! This is entire message
and he seems to love it
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written by P. Desikan, 2009-12-23 19:30:46
A very happy Christmas to you.
There is no doubt in the minds of any Medhavi that the gentle soul whose birthday is so joyfully celebrated throughout the world this time of the year did indeed stand for universal brotherhood and Love.
What the author of the present blog and like-minded thinkers object to is the insistence that his message was the only one leading to God and also the use of questionable methods to brainwash simple folk who do not agree with such insistence.
We hope you are a fine Christian who do not approve of such methods. We wish you success and personal spiritual satisfaction in the pathway and manner of your seeking.
Warm regards. Partha.
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written by karigar, 2009-12-23 14:00:22
You say (amongst other things)
we dont encourage violence, carrying weapons or hurting us physically to redeem
from sins.
Please respond to the main part of the article which is about the wholescale theft of symbols texts & practices of other cultures by Christian organizations. I doubt whether the Jesus figure would have recognized or condoned what committed christians regularly do in his name.
You seem to be fired up with the same self righteous conviction as these missionaries who do these things.
Please understand that Violence is not just physical, it can be mental & emotional. Mental & emotional violence, in fact are more long lasting & damaging than physical. These actions by Christian organizations in India (& historically all around the globe) definitely fit into the mold.
It will be interesting to hear your defence of the actions pointed out in the main article.
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written by rudra, 2009-12-22 08:02:07
Good news for you....
From most of above comments i understood the frustration and accusations directed
against a particular faith.But let us be clear that shortcomings,corruption and deceit is
well evident even in all places to the utmost level.yes...there r exceptions in all walks
of life..it will be unaffair to become self righteous by pointing fingers at others.At the
same time I realy condemn all vested personal interest in the name of religion. The
comments were like throwing stones from a glass house at a neighbour's house.In a cultural
diversified country like ours it is heartbreaking to realise religious intolerance is still
evident among some even after witnessing the demolision of a famous structure which
polarised people with adverse consequences before 16 years.
None of this was good.
I think some of de ill informed comments were
due to lack of knowledge on truth.I have good news for you my friend.Christainity is all
about changing within,giving and serving others.The holy bible doesnt need infomation or
suggestions from anywhere.It projects a god who loved us so much that he gave his only
begotten son to die for our sins and curses by shedding blood on the cross.It has the
past,present and futures.Can u find these anywhere???.Please take a chance to read it to
know more.we dont encourage violence, carrying weapons or hurting us physically to redeem
from sins.We recommend beleif in the lamb who has sacrifised for oursake and approach god
through him.There is no stopping us from sharing the good news with others because the
innocent blood shed by christ was for all mankind's well being.How can we keep it secret
when we have tasted the goodness of god and care about others.We are not parasites on a
host rather a animal which removes bad blood by injecting hope and love.It is natural to
earn the contempt of some in the process.We will not reciprocate it bcoz ur faith says
"Love thy neighbours as yourself" (even if the neighbour throws stones at us).
There are certain issues that this narrative brings forth. For instance, Hindus don't accept that son you refer to as the "Only son" of God. We consider all sentient beings as sons and daughters of God. Infact all creation is an offspring of God.
If you concede that Christianity is only one way to unite with God, we don't have any problems with your love injections. However, if you suggest that only through your love injections can one reach God, then we challenge your right to say so. So, when we don't consider your claim to being the "only" path to God, we obviously might not necessarily welcome your love injections (at least in a theological perspective).
So when we don't want the love injections, any attempts to do so becomes a violation of our right to choose freely. So, it is best to leave the love injections for those who actively seek them....for the rest of us, leave salvation as our personal responsiblity.
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written by Jeyakar, 2009-12-21 20:25:30
From most of above comments i understood the frustration and accusations directed
against a particular faith.But let us be clear that shortcomings,corruption and deceit is
well evident even in all places to the utmost level.yes...there r exceptions in all walks
of life..it will be unaffair to become self righteous by pointing fingers at others.At the
same time I realy condemn all vested personal interest in the name of religion. The
comments were like throwing stones from a glass house at a neighbour's house.In a cultural
diversified country like ours it is heartbreaking to realise religious intolerance is still
evident among some even after witnessing the demolision of a famous structure which
polarised people with adverse consequences before 16 years.
I think some of de ill informed comments were
due to lack of knowledge on truth.I have good news for you my friend.Christainity is all
about changing within,giving and serving others.The holy bible doesnt need infomation or
suggestions from anywhere.It projects a god who loved us so much that he gave his only
begotten son to die for our sins and curses by shedding blood on the cross.It has the
past,present and futures.Can u find these anywhere???.Please take a chance to read it to
know more.we dont encourage violence, carrying weapons or hurting us physically to redeem
from sins.We recommend beleif in the lamb who has sacrifised for oursake and approach god
through him.There is no stopping us from sharing the good news with others because the
innocent blood shed by christ was for all mankind's well being.How can we keep it secret
when we have tasted the goodness of god and care about others.We are not parasites on a
host rather a animal which removes bad blood by injecting hope and love.It is natural to
earn the contempt of some in the process.We will not reciprocate it bcoz ur faith says
"Love thy neighbours as yourself" (even if the neighbour throws stones at us).
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written by Deshika.N.Kumar, 2009-08-12 02:52:06
“The Catholic Church is totally against forced conversions. The Vatican documents are clear about that," Mumbai Archbishop Cardinal Oswald Gracias said.........”
[But taking advantage of poverty is allowed by the Vatican, so education in fancy schools and colleges is free if you become a Catholic]
“In a press statement, Hindu leader Sankaracharya of Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham urged churches and Christian groups to use charity funds for social causes like health and education".
[Read with KKDs comments vis health and missionaries on another thread, it sounds like the Shankaracharya issued an invitation]
(Herewith a sample of the Christian comments on this report)
bcoontz tues june 16th
‘I have spoken to missionaries in India and receive regular reports from there and no one is forced into accepting Christ. We are commanded by Jesus to spread the Gospel.
"The Jesus came to them and said, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.'" Matthew 28:18-20.
This is our primary mission as believers in Christ. It is the only thing that will last.
I was also stunned by the comment that Tauran made when he said, "I am also very impressed that Indians are open minded and tolerant with positive values." He said this shortly after Peetham stated, "We will not allow external interference in our internal affairs." That doesn't sound very open minded to me’.
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written by karigar, 2009-08-11 16:47:29
SUVISESHA *SADHU* (‘*SOODHU’!*) CHELLAPPA by V.SUNDARAM
http://newstodaynet.com/images...9-sun1.gif
Advent Christian Church Building at Tiruvanmiyur.See the cloth poster
displaying in Tamil ‘Christuva Brahmana Seva Samithy’
Yesterday morning (Thursday, 6-8-2009) I got a phone call from some agitated
senior Hindu citizens of Tiruvanmiyur. All of them were complaining about a
poster put up by the Advent Christian Church at Tiruvanmiyur. The poster has
been put up by ‘Christuva Brahmana Seva Samithy’, announcing that there is
going to be a ‘*Kathaa Kaalakshepam**’* by “*Poojyasri Bhagavatar
Vedanaayakam Shastrikal*” on 8-8-2009 (Saturday) at 5 PM at the Advent
Christian Church premises. The main man behind this initiative is one Sadhu
Chellappa who is endevouring to beat the conversion record of St Francis
Xavier (1605-1552) in Goa and elsewhere in India in the 16th century, Robert
de Nobili (1577-1656) in Madurai in the 17th century, Fr Schwartz
(1726-179
in Thanjavur District in the 18th Century and Bishop Caldwell (1814-1891) in Tirunelveli District in the 19th Century.
What angered the enlightened Hindus of Tiruvanmiyur is that the Advent
Christian Church is misusing the *name* (and of course caste!!!) of
the Brahmin community in order to use it as a ploy to mislead and deceive young Hindu men and women in general and Brahmins in particular, in order to lure them into the commercial trap of treacherous missionary Christianity.
I immediately sent a photographer to the spot to take a photograph of the
poster. This photograph of the Advent Christian Church building at
Tiruvanmiyur may be seen at the top of this story with the poster of ‘Christuva Brahmana Seva Samithy’ put up by Sadhu Chellappa. I also went to the spot and saw the poster outside the Advent Christian Church at Tiruvanmiyur.
Later some of the Hindu citizens of Tiruvanmiyur met the concerned Inspector
of Police at the Tiruvanmiyur Police Station and complained that their
religious feelings, sentiments and susceptibilities had been hurt by the
caste-based offending poster put up by the ‘Christuva Brahmana Seva Samithy’
guided and controlled by Sadhu Chellappa. They represented that the Advent
Christian Church and the Adventist Christians have no religious right to
tamper with or misuse the sacred and timeless symbols of Hinduism. It was
also represented that the offending poster must be removed forthwith because
it comes into conflict with Sections 153A and 295A of the IPC under which it
is an offence to promote, on ground of religion, disharmony, enmity, hatred
or ill-will between different religious communities. IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT
THE POLICE TOOK IMMEDIATE ACTION TO GET THE OFFENDING POSTER REMOVED
IMMEDIATELY. TIRUVANMIYUR POLICE HAVE EARNED THE APPRECIATION AND GRATITUDE
OF THE AGITATED HINDUS OF THE AREA IN QUESTION.
According to the priests of Christianity --- of all grades and shades at all
levels --- Christianity, unlike Hinduism, is a casteless religion. When
fraudulent conversion takes place, the poorest sections of Hindu society in
India --- more particularly the Dalits --- are taken for a ride and told
that once any one becomes a Christian, there is no need for him to worry
about the inferiority or superiority of his caste and that he joins the
‘Brotherhood’ of Christianity in which he will face no more caste-based
oppression or social discrimination.
I CAN TESTIFY FROM MY EXPERIENCE AS DISTRICT COLLECTOR AND MAGISTRATE OF
UNBIFURCATED TIRUNELVELI DISTRICT THAT THE CASTE FACTOR IS VERY RAMPANT IN
ALL THE CHURCHES IN THAT DISTRICT. THERE IS A CONTINUOUS WAR BETWEEN THE
NADAR CHRISTIANS AND THE DALIT CHRISTIANS, BETWEEN THE NADAR CHRISTIANS AND
THE FERNANDO CHRISTIANS, BETWEEN THE NADAR CHRISTIANS AND THE VELLALA PILLAI
CHRISTIANS.
Recently many Dalit Christians in Tamil Nadu, Who had converted to
Christianity some years ago, have reconverted themselves into the fold of
Hinduism, the religion of their forefathers. When I interviewed some of them
they told me in one voice: “We have had enough of cruel and unbearable caste
discrimination inside our Church. We are happy to return to Hinduism.”
Perhaps Sitaram Goel (1921-2003) had mercenaries like Sadhu Chellappa in
mind when in his classic book ‘History of Hindu-Christian Encounters’ (AD
304 to 1996) he observed as follows: “Jesus Christ has been the
stock-in-trade of Christian Mission down the ages. He has been packed in all
shapes and sizes depending upon the gullibility of the clients to be duped.
And he has been rammed down the throats of those who have refused to be
hoodwinked by the hoax. As one surveys the history of Christian Missions in
lands where this hoax has been hawked or imposed, one comes across no end of
force and fraud employed in its service by a variety of soldiers and
salesmen most of whom are presented as saints. It can be said without
exaggeration that if one is in search of a hardened criminal with a clean
conscience, one should reach out for the first available Christian Saint and
one will not miss the mark. Saint Francis Xavier, the Patron Saint of the
East according to the Roman Catholic Church, provides an excellent example.”
150 years before Sitaram Goel, Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826), one of the
Founders of the American State and the Third President of the United States
of America had come to the same conclusion about missionaries like Sadhu
Chellappa today. Let us hear his eloquent words: “*Millions of innocent men,
women and children since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt,
tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards
uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half of the
world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support error and roguery all
over the Earth.” *
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written by karigar, 2009-07-28 17:05:58
Who changes whom? Who wins, "Power Play & Subversion Vs it's reaction" or "Live & Let Live"....
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/feb/26mass.htm
Christ like a sadhu, Mother Mary in a sari
Arthur J Pais in New York
February 26, 2008 02:19 IST
"There just cannot be a dialogue or genuine peace between Christians and Hindus unless we stop proselytization," says the Reverend Karen MacQueen, popularly known as Mother Karen.
"This does not mean that someone who has witnessed Christian work, say at a charity institution, wants to find out more about Jesus and the church (should be discouraged). But denigrating another religion and insisting that there is only way to salvation is not a good thing at all," she said.
Mother Karen, who first visited India in 1977 to work with Mother Teresa in Kolkata, and got drawn into studying Hinduism, has promoted Hindu-Christian dialogue in Los Angeles for many years.
She was one of the key movers behind the Indian Rite Mass held on January 19 at St John's Cathedral in Los Angeles. The cathedral is run by Episcopalians, an influential branch of the American church.
A vegetarian since her first visit to India, she says one of the reasons the church issued an apology to Hindus for the attack some Christians have made on Hindu beliefs and way of life, is the continuing controversy about conversions in India.
"We continue to be appalled by the action of many fundamentalist Christian preachers and aids organisation that sought to exploit the tremendous tsunami tragedy in many Asian cities and towns," she said from her office near Los Angeles. "The missionaries were telling the people that unless they became Christians, they would not get the relief aid."
She decided that the Mass would be celebrated in Indian style, using aarti and kirtans. "The Indian style Mass is being celebrated in many Christian ashrams in India," she said.
There are over 50 such ashrams in India where Christianity is presented as an Eastern faith. You will see Christ looking like an Indian sadhu, and Mother Mary picturised wearing a sari.
Mother Karen has sojourned at several of those ashrams, particularly at Shantivanam Ashram, a Camaldolese Benedictine community made famous by its former prior, Bede 'Dayananda' Griffiths.
The Shantivanam ashram looks like a rishi's home transported from Vedic times to the banks of the Cauvery river, at a forested place near Trichy in South India, wrote Hinduism Today magazine.
'A pilgrim's first impressions are strong, and very Hindu: the elaborately colorful Hindu shrine; the bearded, saffron-robed swami seated cross-legged on a straw mat; devotees practicing yogic meditations, even chanting Hindu scriptures.'
The Christian priests who run such ashrams get criticised by conservative Christians and by Hindu groups who think they are trying new conversion ploys. But Mother Karen says the most important mission of Shantivanam is to foster better understanding with the Hindu community.
'The impressions at the Christian ashrams lead to another kind of reality. First, the eye detects that the courtyard shrine is for Saint Paul and that puja is actually a daily Mass, complete with incense, aarti lamps, flower offerings and prasadam,' Hinduism Today wrote.
'Finally, one meets the swami, learning he is Father Bede "Dayananda" Griffiths, a Christian sanyasi of impeccable British background...'
Some of the critics of such ashrams may remember a few Italian priests, who, in the 16th century in Goa lived like sanyasis and were trying to convert high caste Hindus.
'These ashrams,' wrote Hinduism Today 'which are variously described as "experiments in cross-cultural communication," 'contemplative hermitages that revolve around both Christian and Hindu ideas,' or (less charitably) "institutions to brainwash and convert India's unwary masses."
Are these places to be endorsed by Hindus as worthy attempts to share each other's spirituality? Or are they a spiritual oxymoron, a contradiction of terms, because the Christians are interested in sharing -- dialogue is the term they use -- only as a means to conversion?'
Mother Karen would like to see such ashrams grow in number as long as they have a clear mission in holding genuine dialogue and involve Hindu spiritual leaders in the nearby community.
She believes that the recent Indian rite Mass was not a one-time event. "We want to see a Gandhi pilgrimage center in a temple where Christians could go and meditate," she says, "and even get involved in social action."
She also plans to meet with immigration officials and lawmakers at the national and state levels to make changes in the immigration law, so that it becomes easier for Hindu priests from India to serve at the American temples and ashrams.
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written by karigar, 2009-07-24 16:27:21
This is the recent June 2009 Editorial from the HINDU VOICE:..
Inter-Faith Dialogue, a Christian ploy to neutralise Hindus
You create problems in the society and then when it backfires, you call your opponents for a meeting to solve it. The Inter-Faith Dialogue convened in Mumbai on 12-13 June 2009, by the Catholics, is one such meeting. Apart from many Archbishop and Bishops, the Meeting was also attended by Kanchi Sankarachariya Swamiji Jayendra Saraswati, Sri Sri Ravishankar and many other Hindu Sadhus.
On constant promptings by Hindu activists in Chennai, Trichy and Mumbai, I met Kanchi Sankarachariya Swamiji on 9th June at the South Indian Education Society complex at Nerul, at 4.30 p.m. Swamiji was kind enough to patiently listen to and discuss with me for nearly 30 minutes. I had conveyed to him the feelings of many Hindus, i.e:
(a) Since it is their (Christians) conversion activity which creates tension in the society, they should be asked to stop conversion completely. As they are crying coarse only when Hindus starts reacting in a violent manner, the meeting is to safeguard themselves from Hindu backlash, and therefore he (Swamiji) should boycott this meeting.
(b) The Mumbai Catholic Church has brought out a Bible (in June 200
titled "The New Community Bible", where they have included hundreds of verses from Vedas and Upanishads. This amounts to steeling the intellectual property of Hindus. They should be asked to desist from doing so and also render an unconditional apology to Hindus for having done so. Swamiji refused to entertain my idea of ‘boycotting’ the meeting.
Except this, he entirely agreed with me on all other issues.
(Earlier, on 8th June, representatives from Hindu Janjagruti Samiti and Sanatan Sanstha met Swamiji. I had requested HJS too, to take up this matter with Swamiji, which they did.)
I was informed that Sri Sri Ravishankar will be in Yogi Sabhagrah, Mumbai (Dadar) on 11th evening. I went there to meet Sri Sri, but looking at the crowd there, I (and other Hindu activists) came back disappointed.
As a logical follow-up, I attended the Press Conference held at the Shanmukhananda Hall (the venue of the Meeting) on 12th June at 4.00 p.m. Only Kanchi Sankaracharya Swamiji and Archbishop Cardinal Oswald Gracias came before the presspersons. While Swamiji was softly speaking in chaste Hindi, the Cardinal was explaining it in Hindi as well as English. (But how many reporters understood their briefings and reported it to their respective editors is a matter of suspicion.)
Here are the decisions taken at the Meeting, spelt out by both.
(1) That India should be declared a Spiritual Country, instead of a ‘secular’ country.
(2) All the school text books should carry moral stories from all religious books and scriptures.
(3) The Catholic Church is against forced conversion, and they will not support any forced conversion.
(4) Moneys received from foreign countries for the purpose of serving the poor should be used only for that purpose (as seva is a religious duty), and not for converting the poor.
(5) The United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) should not be allowed to visit our country as it amounts to interfering in the internal affairs of our country. (Subsequently the Govt. has refused visa to USCIRF).
Once the press briefing was over, I got up and put my question to the Cardinal which is published in Page-17.
Emboldened by the overwhelming support from Hindus, especially from Hindu Janjagruti Samiti, Sanatan Sanstha, Hindu Voice, etc., it is reported that the Swamiji had taken an aggressive stand at the meeting against the conversion activities of Christian missionaries.
The Vatican and its Hindu apologists at home are reported to have been taken aback when the Swamiji showed them a report published in The Jerusalem Post of May 12, 2009, which said that Pope Benedict XVI, during his recent visit to Israel, had agreed with Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger that the Catholic Church would stop all missionary activity in Israel.
The Swamiji demanded such an assurance from the Archbishop. The Vatican and their Indian counterparts were startled at the enormous amount of information the Swamiji possessed. (If all Shankaracharyas, Gurus, Sadhus and Sants had at least 10% of the gumption Swamiji had, there will be no one to even stare at us).
The escape rout adopted by the Church was that Catholics do not believe in conversion; only other denominations like Protestants, Methodists, Pentecostals, etc. are to be blamed not only for conversion, but also for deriding Hinduism.
Swamiji is reported to have retorted that then there should be a comprehensive meeting with all Christian denominations. Such a meeting is planned for December 2009.
When the question of conversion is taken up, Catholics wash their hands off and say that they cannot speak for the other Evangelical churches. Then why does the Catholic church give its support and join rallies along with evangelical churches? And now to stand apart and say that it cannot speak for the other churches is a cowardly stand.
The decisions taken at the Inter-Faith Dialogue is a victory for Hindu activism. But looking at the lies and half-truths reeled out by Catholics, it is futile to expect that they will abide by these decisions. It is only a ploy to protect themselves from aggressive, sometime violent, Hindu backlash for their misdeeds.
Deivamithu
HINDU VOICE
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written by karigar, 2009-07-20 14:32:01
Thanks for the comment. It is Red alert time indeed. It is mind boggling how systematic and guilt free the whole exercise is...goes to prove the old adage, "when one man steals, it is thievery, when a whole group does, it is conquest."
It is global in scope indeed, India only being the more 'ripe for plucking'.
For the activity on Buddhist communities in the periphery of India & SE Asia, see this piece which underscores the plans & execution.....often with the sleepy / drugged victim's co-operation:
http://www.lankaweb.com/news/items08/010708-2.html
Planning the Demise of Buddhism
Peoples of the Buddhist World by Paul Hattaway, Piquant Editions, Carlisle, 2004.
Reviewed by Allen Carr
Some Western drug companies spend millions of dollars developing and marketing a new drug only to have the health authorities later discover that it has dangerous side-effects and then ban it. Needing to recover their investment and unable to sell their drug in the West some of these companies try to market their dangerous products in the Third World where public awareness of health issues is low and indifferent governments can be brought off. Some might say that Christianity is a bit like this.
Having lost much of their following in the West, churches are now beginning to look for opportunities elsewhere. Of course the Islamic world is out of the question. Even the most optimistic evangelist knows that the chance of spreading the Gospel amongst Muslims is nil. The obvious targets are Africa, India and the Buddhist countries of Asia. There are now several evangelical organizations dedicated just too evangelizing Buddhists. The Asia Pacific Institute of Buddhist Studies in the Philippines offers missionaries in-depth courses in Buddhist doctrine, the languages of Buddhist countries and the sociology of various Buddhist communities – the better to know the enemy.
(For full story, click link above....
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written by P. Desikan, 2009-07-19 18:49:39
There is a lot of difference between a) absorbing values from others out of respect for the values and their origins and b) appropriating the same values with the intention of laying claim for them and destroying the origins in the process.
All Indic thinkers must see red and sensitize all others to what is being blatantly perpetrated.
I am passing on your article to Sri AM Rajagopalan through his son in the US. The respected and popular Jyotisha exponent is on a brief visit to the US East.
Warm regards. Partha.
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Although we're worried about them resignifying Hindu symbolism with Christian ideas (something that Bede Griffiths himself has said has been a goal whose failure to achieve has vexed the RCC for the past 400 years), I'd hazard a guess that the Vatican is probably as worried about them Hinduizing the RCC.
I'd say the bigger problem Hindus face is from Marxism, which some RCC theologians say is a Christian heresy. That connection in itself suggests that there are some important similarities between Marxism and Christianity. If you drive Marxism out of India, you will likely drive out Christianity with it.