The Medha Journal

Webmedhajournal.com

Sun02052012

Last update12:00:00 PM GMT

What's New:

Font Size

Screen

Profile

Layout

Direction

Menu Style

Cpanel
Back The strength of the universalistic Hindu position

The strength of the universalistic Hindu position

User Rating: / 2
PoorBest 

Introduction

Passions are raised whenever the standard universalistic Hindu position, ”All religions are valid” , is discussed.  Well meaning Hindus feel, passionately no doubt, that such a claim is an unilateral surrender by Hindu religious leaders  who are at best naive and at worst defeatist.  Some also accuse Hindu leaders of the dreaded S word (S for sameness).  Some people also claim that such a position will mean acceptance of conversions. A defence of the, “All religions are valid” position by quoting the Bible itself cuts no ice to its critics who say that while Christian scholars try to bring down the prestige of Hindu scriptures, Hindu scholars invent quotes from the Bible to show its similarity to Vedanta.

I have in this short piece put together a defence of the standard Hindu position.  I hope to show that,  this position has deep hidden powers not fully understood by its critics and that the statement “All religions are valid” is not the same as “All religions are same”.  I also hope to show by giving one example that a close study of the Bible, specially the Gospels, does not in fact entirely support the Christian position about the teaching of Jesus.

Search on Amazon

Meaning of “All religions are valid”

The statement “All religions are valid” simply means that there is a common spiritual aspect in every religion that talks of a higher power, that all religions are true. It does not mean that these religions are free of all errors. The theologies of these religions, specially the Abrahamic ones, are in fact full of errors. Nevertheless, these religions are true precisely because they accept a higher power. Also since no Hindu can accept the theologies of the Abrahamic religions, the statement “All religions are valid” does not imply that “All religions are same”.

Is the standard position defeatist?

I would argue that the answer to the above question is a clear negative. Let us look at how this particular Hindu claim appears to followers of Christianity and Islam. The followers of these aggressive religions have been brain washed to believe that only a believer in Jesus is saved and no one else.  Similarly a follower of Islam thinks that only followers of Islam would end up in heaven although they give some privilege to followers of the book. To the followers of these faiths, the Hindu position appears to be aggressive!

The net result of the Abrahamic position is that either Christianity is right and all other religions are wrong or Islam is right and all other religions are wrong or the more likely case as argued by atheists is that all religions are by products of insane minds! The strong growth of atheism in many western countries supports my claim that the Abrahamic position is in fact a weak position. The Hindu position by accepting the spiritual validity of all religions clearly rejects Abrahamic  claims  and positions Hindu dharma in a unique position in the market place of religions. This position does not support conversions since, one should not convert to another religion that does not accept the universalistic claim of Hindu dharma. What would happen if Hindu dharma mimics the Abrahamic position that only it is valid and all other religions are wrong? Then it would vacate its unique space and would be one of many religions that are making the same dubious claim. I would say that such a thing would be a calamity for Hindu dharma.

Do the Gospels support the Christian claim?

The critics of the Hindu position usually argues that the Christian position of uniqueness that only Jesus can save is in fact deeply rooted in the Bible and Hindus are not in any position to tell the Christians how they should interpret the Bible or not. For example, Jesus said in the Bible that, “I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man can come to the Father, except through me”.  Given this direct  claim by Jesus, it is futile for Hindus to claim that Christian theology is in error or that Jesus spoke Vedanta! In fact the critics claim is that Hindu scholars have to invent a “Hindu Bible” in order to make the usual “all religions are valid claim”.

I would like to show here that the modern English Bible is in fact an invention of the Christian scholars. Firstly, there are at scores of English translations of the Bible each claiming to be the correct version. Catholics have a catholic Bible and most protestant sects have their own version where motivated scholars have tweaked the English translation to bring the Bible in line with the dogmatic claims of the particular sect.  Secondly, I would like to make the point that there are doubts about the translation even about famous Jesus sayings about which all sects agree . This doubt is not dependent on whether there was a historical Jesus but is based on the precise translation of the Koine Greek language in which the Gospels were written. The Koine Greek original of the famous saying (I am the way...) is:

Ego eimi ha hodos kai ha alatheia kai ha zoa; oudeis erketai pros ton patera ei ma di emou.

The key word here is erketai. This is an extremely present-tense form of the verb.  The exact translation would be,”I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man can presently come to the  Father, except through me”. Jesus did not make the claim that he was the only way for all people and for all eternity. He made the modest claim that he was the only way in Palestine of 2000 years ago. Christian scholars know about this problem but deliberately mistranslate this statement. There are numerous such translation issues in the English Bible. Given this situation should we accept Christian claims about the Bible?

Conclusion

Conversions are occurring in India not due to the universalistic position of Hindu dharma but due to poverty and illiteracy. The illiberal attitude of Christian and Islamic clergy would in the long run weaken those 2 religions. This weakening process is already visible in many Christian lands and would be visible in Islamic lands at some future date. It would be foolish on our part to give up our universalistic position and strengthen the fundamentalist strains of the Abrahamic faiths.

Trackback(0)
Comments (21)Add Comment
0
Universal religion of Love
written by KT, 2010-09-26 16:17:36
Religions are confused with local cultures. Real scriptures do not preach about doctrines. Bhagwad geeta and the new testament of the Bible are complementary to each other if one takes time to read carefully. The universal theme one can find is LOVE. There is no competition. Cultural things such as Christmas, Easter, Ganesha festival, Krishna jayanti, Baptism, Pojas, rituals, mantras etc.. are all cultural things and nothing to do with what Krishna or Jesus taught. It would be a privilege to born in India as Hindu and study both Bible and Geeta on their own and not depending on a robed Hindu Guru or a fundamental Christian short term missionary pounding on Bible..
partha
Thank you
written by partha, 2010-09-13 01:47:42
Thanks for the clarifications, dear friends.
gangp
No recording!
written by gangp, 2010-09-12 20:48:46
Dear Partha,
I attended the Vedanta Center in Hollywood for 15 years. I was never told about any recording.
They have bone fragments and other relics of Ramakrishna and Ma Sarada but no recording.

Regards

gangp
rmraju
Swami Vivekananda
written by rmraju, 2010-09-12 06:29:09

Hi Pradip and Pathha.

On the web there is recording of Subir Ghosh reading Swami's speeches.

http://www.hamaracd.com/timeso...a&CatId=24

It will be good to verify and get if actual recoding and of film featuring Swamji exists and put on this journal.

Here is the text of Swami's speech on 9/11: http://hinduism.about.com/od/v...eeches.htm

One thing come out very clearly from Swami V's various speeches and works that is he is always coming from universalistic Hindu position.

Regards,
Raju

partha
what is the recording?
written by partha, 2010-09-12 04:54:49
Dear Raju, Pradip,
Both of you kindly sort out the origin of the recording that Raju has found somewhere. If it is not Swami V's voice, it can be a fake recording or an authentic excerpt from a film featuting Swami V's visit to Chicago.
It seems to be the right text alright.
Pradip, kindly let us know why you think there was no recording of the Chicago speech.
Warm regards. Partha.
gangp
Not an actual recording!
written by gangp, 2010-09-10 18:55:35
Dear Raju,
There is no recording of Vivekananda's speech.

gangp
rmraju
9/11 in Chicago in 1893
written by rmraju, 2010-09-10 15:29:53
Hello All,

Short and powerful message of love, compassion and reason of universalistic Hindu position by Shree swami Vivekananda.

Wonderful and amazing speech, with tremendous thought-out words made it so precious - from Shree swami Vivekananda, before our times and how true some of the things he said

Listen to Actual Voice of Swami Vivekananda in his Famous speech at World Conference in Chicago on 9/11/1893. Click on the link below.

http://www.udeps.com/Vivekananda.html

Thanks,
Raju
rmraju
Hinduism as Open-Source Faith
written by rmraju, 2010-06-09 16:44:48

Hi All,

Here is an interesting article on Hinduism.

The God Project: Hinduism as Open-Source Faith

[url= http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...view=print


Regards.
Raju
gangp
Absolutely correct!
written by gangp, 2010-04-28 17:48:49
Dear Raju,
Your statement, "Non-universalistic position will create a limited edition of Hinduism" is a splendid statement of the strength of
the universalistic position.

Regards

Pradip
rmraju
Sanatana Dharma
written by rmraju, 2010-04-28 13:10:01
Dear Pradip,

I forgot to mention two things.

First I agree with your conclusions and second kindly don’t make Hinduism into a sub-set is a general comment.

Here are additional thoughts:
Hinduism is pluralistic in nature, requires no membership, affiliation or oath of loyalty, accepts multiple religious paths. Source of this sacred wisdom in Hinduism is based on Vedic Rishi's, Upanishadic sages and kings and numerous saints’ experience of Brahman and not on reason or emotion. Hinduism like Brahman is inclusive. I believe it is for these reasons Hinduism is Sanatana Dharma, the eternal religion. Non-universalistic position will create a limited edition of Hinduism.

Regards,
Raju
rmraju
A thought provocative article
written by rmraju, 2010-04-28 05:59:32
Dear Pradip,

I enjoyed reading your article.

Here are my thoughts.

Brahman made man and man made religions. Religions, then, are for man and not man for religions. If this is the case then one should be able to look at all religions as an outsider. Evaluation of religion should nether be based on reason nor on emotion but based on inner experience. After this one will come to conclusion that all religions offer valid paths for salvation/moksha/nirvana whatever you like to call. One may not believe in God yet one can be spiritual in nature/disposition and I believe this is acceptable as a valid path in Hinduism.

I tried to find answers to following two questions that came to my mind.

Why does Hinduism accept paths offered by other religions?

'Hinduism condemns no one simply because he or she is either atheist or humanist. As Erich Fromm says that unlike Christianity and Islam, the emphasis in Eastern religions including Hinduism, is not on right thought or belief but on right action. That is why in the Hindu tradition atheists and humanists, though not believing in any God are held in great esteem provided their actions are conducive to the welfare of humanity. By the same token, the Hindus show great adoration to saints and great personalities of other religions. For, they believe that a holy company, regardless of its religious affiliation, is very helpful in realizing God.'

Ref: http://sriramakrishnamath.org/2007/11-3-3.Pdf

Is there any example in Hinduism to support above hypothesis?

'Experience of nirvikalpa samadhi convinced Ramakrishna that the Gods of the various religions are merely so many interpretations of the Absolute, and that the Ultimate Reality could never be expressed in human terms. This confirmed the Rig-Veda proclamation that "Truth is one but sages call it by many a name". As a result of this insight, Ramakrishna actually practiced Islam, Christianity and various sects within Hinduism at different times.'

Ref: http://www.knowledgerush.com/k...aramhansa/

On can find spiritual teaching in Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity etc to achieve peace, love, and salvation/moksha/nirvana. World has seen many wrong things done in the name of religion. But we don’t know anything wrong that has been done by following spiritual path/teaching of a religion. I think it is for these reason Hindus believe that all paths are valid.

Hinduism accepts various paths as it is not an institution but a spiritual way of life. We all know institution can be created and destroyed. Mathematically speaking Hinduism is super-set; kindly don’t make it set/sub-set. Set and sub-set come and go but super-set, perhaps abstract for some of us, continuous to exists. We have seen this during expansion of Hinduism in India and Far East in the past. There is no reason why this may not happen in the world in future.

I came across following interesting news item.

We Are All Hindus Now.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/212155

Thanks for writing a thought provocative article.

Regards,
Raju


0
Is Hinduism the only path?
written by proudhindu92, 2010-04-25 19:48:29
gangp,

You seem to agree with them except for the fact that for you only Hindu dharma is valid.

Not at all. Even if we consider Hinduism as collection of multiple valid paths, I am NOT saying that only Hinduism is valid. Let me clarify my position:

1. Multiple valid path to Truth/God exists.
2. Hinduism is collection of such multiple valid paths.
3. Multiple does not mean 'All'. Some paths may be invalid. Which one? I don't know; people have to debate and find for themselves.
4. Are there valid paths outside the ambit of Hinduism? Of course yes, no religion including Hinduism has monopoly of truth.
5. Are Islam and xtanity valid paths?
No, they are not only false but fascist paths. I am relying on the definition of these religions as 99.9999% of people understand rather than distorted interpretation by 'useful idiots' like Yoganand Shastri. Since these are exclusivist religions, they are false and unacceptable. Just like free market consider monopoly bad, Hinduism's liberal approach should consider these exclusivist religions as dangerous and invalid.

Such a stand is in consonance with Hinduism's univeralistic position since it accepts that valid paths can exist outside Hinduism. One is free to discover/invent any new path to Truth. But it considers Islam/Xtanity false because of their exclusivist claim (NOT because only hinduism is valid).

Hope it clarifies.

With regard to 4.,
gangp
in agreement
written by gangp, 2010-04-23 20:46:49
Dear Partha,
You and I are in agreement on this issue.

Regards

Pradip
gangp
no invalid paths!
written by gangp, 2010-04-23 20:45:02
ph92,
Christian or Islamic theologies divide the world into valid and invalid paths. Christians claim that the only valid path is Christianity and hence all must
convert to Christianity. Similarly Islamic organizations want to convert all people to Islam because only Islam is valid. You seem to agree with them except for
the fact that for you only Hindu dharma is valid.

Hindu universalism takes the opposite position. It rejects the monopoly on Truth claim by Christians and muslims. It says that all religions/dharmas
whether Hindu, Bouddha, jaina, Christian, Islamic, African sytems, animism etc can lead one to Truth (however defined) if one has attained to moral
perfection.

Regards
gangp
universalism not the same as radical universalism!
written by gangp, 2010-04-23 20:36:06
Dear Karigar,

Is'nt a "Universalist" position about one's own position being universally valid, & less (if any) about other positions validity? Religious scholars like Frank Morales have called the "All religions are same" position as "Radical Universalism" and one that Hinduism seems to have unilaterally taken at it's peril

Universalism does not mean that all religions are same. Obviously any cursory glance at the theologies of different religions/dharmas would show that radical
universalism in the sense that all religions are same can not be correct.

So what does universalism mean? It means that no religion has any monopoly on Truth. This position is the exact opposite of say the Christian theolgical position
that only Jesus can save. Christian theology says that there is something special in Christianity and hence one must convert to Christianity. Hindu universalism
says that moksha (whether in the advaitic sense or in the Hindu dualistic sense or in Christian or Islamic sense of staying in paradise with Jesus/God or Allah etc)
is open to all persons irrespective of the religion/dharma followed by them. What is necessary is moral perfection and not the exact dharma/religion being followed.

Regards
partha
correction
written by partha, 2010-04-23 19:05:06
In the last but one sentence of my previous comment, I see a part which has come out differently from what I meant.
I have said
but no need for highlighting other harmless aspects of the same religions, even if they do not measure up to our perceived levels of what is right
I wish to correct it to
and to be civilized in highlighting other harmless aspects of the same religions, when they do not measure up to our perceived levels of what is right
Regret the error.
Regards. Partha
partha
...
written by partha, 2010-04-23 18:39:43
Friends,
The learned Indian men who sought American shores to spread Indic thought so far had two clear options,-
1) having a policy which would nourish their own organizations and therefore help them too, while pursuing their original purpose of propagating Indic thoughts or practices,
2) having a policy which would see that Indic fundamentals are never compromised.
tmj has a job cut out.
It can espouse the second option, and strongly highlight the need for fresh Guru entrants and future ones to conform to it.

If tmj decides that there is no hope for the second option, it will be seen to concede that no honest 'dialogue' is possible and therefore there may not be need for dialogue.
'Invading the sacred' was a 'dialogue' towards rectifying a wrong in creation of literature/data about the practices of our religion by non practitioners, whether of the same religion or otherwise. Such trouble shooting dialogues, small and big will be needed all the time. Some of our members know of a Bangalore based Indian, a staunch Christian, who believes in the right of a person to voluntarily change his religion, but not in offering coercion, inducements or threats by others to effect this change in him. He has been active along with Bangalore based RSS persons in investigating alleged minority bashing in coastal Karnataka and arriving at sane conclusions.
Will there be genuine difficulty in dialogues for specific purposes with such members of different religions? Is there scope for inspiring more such participation, where there is need for stopping wrong activities of a religion with respect to one's own religion, but no need for highlighting other harmless aspects of the same religions, even if they do not measure up to our perceived levels of what is right ? Is mud slinging per se, in all camps, an avoidable exercise?
Warm regards. Partha
partha
Help!
written by partha, 2010-04-23 18:08:49
Editors, after writing my previous comment when I previewed it, I was able to read it in the same sequence of words which I had intended for it.
But when I see the final product, I am finding it difficult to read in sequence. This has happened before too, once or twice when I used quotes. Am I missing any procedure? Please help.
Regards. Partha.
karigar
Universalism or Radical Universalism?
written by karigar, 2010-04-23 15:06:29
Dear Pradip da,
I'm yet to get full understanding of the multiple threads of the arguments made here. SO let me start by trying to get at it thread by thread.

Is'nt a "Universalist" position about one's own position being universally valid, & less (if any) about other positions validity? Religious scholars like Frank Morales have called the "All religions are same" position as "Radical Universalism" and one that Hinduism seems to have unilaterally taken at it's peril. [See http://www.dharmacentral.com/universalism.htm ]

Looking at the ground situation, I tend to be convinced by this argument. Of course I've no idea how this will play out over large timespans, like centuries etc...

His intro lays out he issue, as he sees it, before going into the nitty gritty of refuting this position as an authentic hindu one. Here it is:

Of the many current peculiar concepts mistakenly ascribed to Hindu theology, one of the most widely misunderstood is the idea that Hinduism somehow teaches that all religions are equal…that all religions are the same, with the same purpose, goal, experientially tangible salvific state, and object of ultimate devotion. So often has this notion been thoughtlessly repeated by so many - from the common Hindu parent to the latest swamiji arriving on American shores yearning for a popular following - that it has now become artificially transformed into a supposed foundation stone of modern Hindu teachings. Many Hindus are now completely convinced that this is actually what Hinduism teaches. Despite its widespread popular repetition, however, does Hinduism actually teach the idea that all religions are really the same? Even a cursory examination of the long history of Hindu philosophical thought, as well as an objective analysis of the ultimate logical implications of such a proposition, quickly makes it quite apparent that traditional Hinduism has never supported such an idea.

The doctrine of what I call "Radical Universalism" makes the claim that "all religions are the same." This dogmatic assertion is of very recent origin, and has become one of the most harmful misconceptions in the Hindu world in the last 150 or so years. It is a doctrine that has directly led to a self-defeating philosophical relativism that has, in turn, weakened the stature and substance of Hinduism to its very core. The doctrine of Radical Universalism has made Hindu philosophy look infantile in the eyes of non-Hindus, has led to a collective state of self-revulsion, confusion and shame in the minds of too many Hindu youth, and has opened the Hindu community to be preyed upon much more easily by the zealous missionaries of other religions. The problem of Radical Universalism is arguably the most important issue facing the global Hindu community today. In the following, we will perform an in-depth examination of the intrinsic fallacies contained in this inherently non-Hindu idea, as well as the untold damage that Radical Universalism has wrought in modern Hinduism.


Is your "universalism" same or different from his "Radical Universalism"? If different, in what ways?

Thanks
partha
...
written by partha, 2010-04-23 06:00:22
Dear Pradip,
ph92
celebrates and highlights Hinduism's universalism and openness
just as you do.
What you call
the illiberal attitude of Christian and Islamic clergy
is seen by ph92 as
intellectual bankruptcy of Abrahmic religions
. He contends
that it is a great opportunity for Hinduism to fill in this gap
.
Karigar would consider the opportunity as for dialogue with Abrahamic individuals who are disenchanted with the religions they inherited and are willing to bargain for atheism otherwise.
It is of course possible to ignore common objectives and pretend that all of you have irreconcileable differences and keep marching in parallel lines without looking left or right.
Regards. Partha.
0
Reposting the comment
written by proudhindu92, 2010-04-22 19:06:07
I added a comment but it hasn't appeared even after 48 hours. Its a poor idea to moderate the comments. Rather if something objectionable is found, then it should be removed. Anyway, I am reposting it.

----------------------

gangp,

The statement “All religions are valid” simply means that there is a common spiritual aspect in every religion that talks of a higher power, that all religions are true.


If all religions talk of higher power (i.e. God), it doesn't make them spiritual or valid. I guess there is already a word for this - theistic. So, say simply that all religions are 'theistic', exception could be Buddhism.

Hinduism say that there are many paths to God/Truth. But many path doesn't mean 'all paths'.
I agree that Hinduism's universalism is a strength. But Universalism here means 'many paths' - which includes 'many' existing paths as well as new paths. New paths leads to the possibility of experimentation and opportunity to people to realize truth in their own ways.

So, lets celebrate and highlight Hinduism's universalism and openness without falsely validating 'all' paths.

Let the onus be on Church and Islamic groups to prove that their religion is a valid one rather than Hinduism bestowing this honour to these religions.

The strong growth of atheism in west is due to intellectual bankruptcy of Abrahmic religions. Its a great opportunity for Hinduism to fill in this gap. However, hindu leader's 'all religions are valid' approach will only make people return back to xtanity. Hinduism doesn't need to fight atheism on behalf of all religions. Rather the approach should be to let people see emptiness of Abrahmic religion and then, proffer multiple spiritual paths of Hinduism.

Write comment

busy

Last Updated on Tuesday, 20 April 2010 23:43

Community Statistics

Statistics
Total Members : 486
Total Groups : 4
Total Discussion : 8
Total Albums : 23
Total Photos : 294
Total Videos : 17
Total Bulletins : 3
Total Activities : 2658
Total Wall Posts : 28
Total Events : 1
Total Males : 89
Total Females : 44
Total Unspecified : 353